[Feral] BIS DPS trinkets? (2024)

Hello everyone.

I have been wondering a few days about what is actually our BIS trinkets. I've been searching a bit around and most ppl seems to suggest the following 2 asuming only normal modes are to be considered.
Vial of shadows - http://www.wowhead.com/item=77207
Wrath of unchaining - http://www.wowhead.com/item=77197

However, since we are feral and our AP is useally higher than most classes, i was thinking if the str version of vial of shadows were to be considered.
Bone-link fetisch - http://www.wowhead.com/item=77210

From what i have heard then vial of shadows is almost redicilously good for feral and can do about 6-10% of our total dmg, i was therefor thinking if dropping a bit of AP (when going from agi to str) would be worth it considered it has a proc wich aldo scales with AP?

Thanks in advance.

The Vial scales with AP too, which is why it contributes so much damage as it does for feral (i.e. for hunters I've heard it does 2-3% overall damage).

wrath and vial are BiS, not sure how you could think a str trinket would be your BiS as an agility user, seeing as the vial proc is so much better.

I think i must not have made myself clear enough.

I was thinking of running with Vial of shadows + Bone link fetisch, therefor passing on wrath of unchaining.

Vial of shadows is a sure winner over all, so question stand between wrath of unchaining and bone link, does the AP scaling proc make up for a little less AP+crit?

Originally Posted by Demios

wrath and vial are BiS, not sure how you could think a str trinket would be your BiS as an agility user, seeing as the vial proc is so much better.

I imagine it could be possible for the whirlwind proc to be good for many-add/spawn fights, good enough to be worth using. The only thing I can think of would be Spine, but Vial would be better for the higher burst on tendons. I don't think there are any current fights that would make the Fetish practical for feral.---------- Post added 2012-01-03 at 03:37 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Hviske10ske

I think i must not have made myself clear enough.

I was thinking of running with Vial of shadows + Bone link fetisch, therefor passing on wrath of unchaining.

Vial of shadows is a sure winner over all, so question stand between wrath of unchaining and bone link, does the AP scaling proc make up for a little less AP+crit?

Unchaining is worth at least 9% of overall damage (I'd be willing to wager it is about that much), I don't think a strength trinket and the proc would be sufficient to compensate for that kind of loss.

I think i must not have made myself clear enough.

I was thinking of running with Vial of shadows + Bone link fetisch, therefor passing on wrath of unchaining.

Vial of shadows is a sure winner over all, so question stand between wrath of unchaining and bone link, does the AP scaling proc make up for a little less AP+crit?

Also, i just hit a dummy to get a few procs, and the vial seems to be standing at about 45.5k, while bone link seems to be around 34.1k. Thats selfbuffed and with 390 DW weap proc, 10 stacks of wrath of unchaining stacks, horn og winter and Blessing of might (no flask or pot used)

Originally Posted by Demios

wrath and vial are BiS

That should answer your question.

Originally Posted by MasterNewbie

That should answer your question.

but this is the answer he wants to hear,

even tho the str trinket does not give us any agility so no AP/ Crit it does proc verry high extra melee attacks, witch by itzelf makes it a decerent trinket. however the the loss of around 800 agility is going ot affact all your attacks, inclduing the trinket procs thats why sadly the str trinket is not BiS.

if you want to see the real simulated results then i am afraid i cannot offer it to you.

Originally Posted by Elunedra

if you want to see the real simulated results then i am afraid i cannot offer it to you.

This...

I was interested in hearing about ppl who had actually simmed the trinket to see if it would be a worthy candidate, or maybe atleast just on fights with some cleaving (gunboat, partly spine comes to mind)

Im well aware of how agi is by far our best stat and im well familiar with the mechanics for druids. All im trying to figure out is if this might have been an overlooked trinket for ferals.

i gues i could reverse engineer something:

what if we take the dps of the vail trinket and substrakc the dps the comes from agility, what we have left should be the dps the comes from the extra attack?

using values found in the cat guide:

4633 H : Vial of Shadows Hragon Soul first 6 bosses
4595 H : Wrath of Unchaining Heroic: Spine of Deathwing
4252 N : Vial of Shadows Dragon Soul first 6 bosses
4080 N : Wrath of Unchaining Spine of Deathwing
3925 RF : Vial of Shadows RFragon Soul first 6 bosses
3610 RF : Wrath of Unchaining Raid Finder: Spine of Deathwing
3608 H : Starcatcher Compass Heroic: Warmaster Blackhorn
3203 VP : Kiroptyric Sigil Valor

so if Wrath of Unchaining gives 4595 dps whit its 990 agility that mans 1 agi gives 4595 / 990 = 4,64 dps
(this is rather high i though it was more like 3.3 dps)
so hc trinket has 517 agility that means the agility alone gives it 517 * 4.46 = 2399 dps

See Also

Feral Druid PvP Stat Priority, Gear, and Trinkets (Dragonflight 10.2.7)

so if we do 4633 - 2399 = 2234 dps.
if we use a dps value of 3.1 for agiliy we get 517 * 3.1 = 1602 dps
so if we do 4633 - 3031 = dps.

that means the extra attack alone is not good enough to make a good trinket.
so the HC version of the STR trinket should be lower then Kiroptyric Sigil Valor

It's an interesting idea, but as many have said before me, losing 990 agi from Spine trinket is BAD, even if Bone-Link manages to pull similar numbers to Vial in terms of proc (Which it wont, base damage is lower).

OP is really overvaluing that proc on the trinket to justify losing SOOO much agility/AP. Too much theory crafting imo, no offense.

As i stated earlier, this thread was made to make sure that this trinlet just havnt been overlooked. Afterall, a proc that scales with AP would favor ferals over many others.

Also the math put out a few posts up isnt taking into consideration that it has some str that will probably give about 1000 dps, asuming procs at at 35 normals, 72k crits, avr at something like 54k, proc every 27 sec, that will give the proc a value of 2k dps. Total value would be about 3k then, however, these are rough estimate from my side. The proc i used for these numbers is however from the normal version of the str trinket since i had those rough numbers from earlier in this thread, so the HC version might be around 3.5k worth

Originally Posted by Hviske10ske

As i stated earlier, this thread was made to make sure that this trinlet just havnt been overlooked. Afterall, a proc that scales with AP would favor ferals over many others.

Also the math put out a few posts up isnt taking into consideration that it has some str that will probably give about 1000 dps, asuming procs at at 35 normals, 72k crits, avr at something like 54k, proc every 27 sec, that will give the proc a value of 2k dps. Total value would be about 3k then, however, these are rough estimate from my side. The proc i used for these numbers is however from the normal version of the str trinket since i had those rough numbers from earlier in this thread, so the HC version might be around 3.5k worth

You are correct in the proc value, however that is ignoring any damage reduction and assuming 40000 attack power with 50% crit, which is generous at best. Now, looking at the strength bonus, which is 517. 517 strength gives 517 AP. Thats it. No crit, no agi boost from full leather gear, nothing from you talents, it is terrible to say the least. Considering you would have to replace, and lets assume you have 8/8 HC, a Heroic Wrath of the Unchaining, which gives 990 agi. That is more than 2k AP, and 3% crit. I'd say its a fun trinket for some occasional PvP, but thats pretty much it, it gives us very little benefit compared to an agility trinket.

EDIT: Simcraft puts the Bone-Link proc at 1500 dps in full BiS gear.

Originally Posted by nxzt

EDIT: Simcraft puts the Bone-Link proc at 1500 dps in full BiS gear.

This was what i was looking for, so far ppl have only made rough estimates (including myself) backing it up with logic, but so far i just hadnt been able to find some numbers for that proc for a feral. That is, if that number isnt taking from another thread were its a regular plateuser, it has been simmed for.

Also, i didnt count on 50% crit, but the higher than average number i pulled out was due to it being able to proc where i might have more AP or there would be some debuffs on the boss (FFF/Sunder, 4% dmg increase and so on) and also to consider when it might proc with TF active and give 20% more dmg. So the numbers i pulled out was most likely lower than it would be in a real situation, wich is why i find it a bit wierd that sim craft only makes it out to be a 1500 dps proc. But i still trust it more than my napkin maths, but only if its taking from a feral POV and not a ret, warrior or DK.

Edit: The numbers i pulled out up earlier was also from the normal version of the str trinket, i just tried some more math in excel, and it seems that my first estimates wasnt totaly wrong, i got a result of 2119,1 dps after calculating TF uptime and so on. I didnt put in the time needed to work in FFF, but only the 4% dmg debuff, and the proc and scaling on the heroic version will be even better!

http://i.imgur.com/GjEJm.png

Are you over-estimating the AP coefficient on the proc? The normal version uses no more than 67.5%, I don't believe it is much higher for the heroic version. There is no way it could do more damage than the Vial.

To be honest, I don't know why simulation results would be necessary to show that a strength item is not as good as an agility item for feral (of similar ilvls). We aren't in 4.0 anymore.

Originally Posted by MasterNewbie

To be honest, I don't know why simulation results would be necessary to show that a strength item is not as good as an agility item for feral. We aren't in 4.0 anymore.

This was what I was thinking, but I thought it to be common sense. Like I said, too much theory crafting lol

It was never ment to replace vial of shadows, i know that BIS for us and the proc is better than the str version since its single target only. I was asking for Wrath of unchaining vs. the str one with its proc.

and the obvious choice would be wrath of unchaining. 780 or 880 agility with pretty much 100% uptime > the proc on that str trinket